Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. Kansas officials think a mountain lion recently roamed through Shawnee County. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Thanks for calling. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred. You saw what you saw. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. Sam Evans Brown. According to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, a homeowner heard growling coming from underneath his porch while working outside. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. The sub-population in Florida is known as the Florida panther . Sam Evans-Brown: You know the North America had a number of large predator species when humans first arrived in the continent. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. OK. You need a permit to have that. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Tell us your story. Well Is DNA the most reliable means we have of identifying whether or not what we saw is actually a mountain lion. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. John. Really appreciate it. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. The next day I crossed the river and took pictures of a paw print he left behind . Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Or years or so. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. Caller: Oh yeah. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Does not test random Scouts. And those are not the same things. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. Is there a way we can learn more about these dispersing mountain lions that may travel through the Granite State and that I would ask you certainly part about whether or not a he's spending too much time chasing down these kind of false leads or B would rather be doing something else that is more informative to whether or not we actually have or can prove that we have dispersing mountain lions in the state. Right. Peter Biello: Wow. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Caller: I do. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. What do you think that. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. Fish and Game then deny the evidence. Can you tell us about that story. Here it is. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. This animal, IMHO, was probably live caught as an adult from the wild and brought to the . Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. They kill big animals. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. And they were using all the habitat. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Still, it's been over 100 years since the last mountain lion was killed east of the Mississippi, except for a patch of them down in Florida, where there are supposed to be 100 to 200 still living. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Just. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Good morning guys. Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. That's pretty elaborate. Okay. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. brings a lot of. So. No that's a little bit outside the range. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. I tracked cats and all the western states. Wes Siler. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. Peter Biello: Yeah. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Possible Mountain Lion Sighting in New Hampshire CONCORD, N.H. -- The New Hampshire Fish and Game Department today reported that one of its staff members, following up on a routine report of a mountain lion sighting, saw what is believed to be a mountain lion in a rural area of Barnstead, N.H. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And why would they what. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. In Vermont, it was 1881. May 23 . Tim Yeah. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion sightings in the Northeast, although most have been thought to be escaped captive animals. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. #4. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Jun 13, 2011. I found a second scat scent both to him. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. Give today. Caller: Oh hi. New Hampshire Public Radio | So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. How far were you from this cat. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. So do they. What's going on. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. 50 feet above the most. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Border However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Why are there so many false positives? And you know all that. for some excitement. I mean they're a survivor. It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . So it's there was no question in my mind. There's these animals aren't coming with a map saying oh I want to go here. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. So take care of this problem. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. The scientific name for the catamount is Puma concolor. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. The experts' take on what happened last Saturday when a mountain lion killed one cyclist and injured another outside of Seattle. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. So Michael follows with the question. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. But you've done some reporting on this. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. 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